Age discrimination at RIM?

[Old Dude]

Someone tell me why RIM in Waterloo has had the same postings for the same
jobs since last summer?
We're talking posting the same jobs, like Technical Writing, since July
2004....these are posted on workopolis.com day after day after day.
Yet, even though I applied for these jobs over and over again, I get
rejected over and over again.
If they ask for experience in ABCDE, and I have it, and they want education
in KLMNO, and I have it, and they want knowledge in WXYZ, and I have it,
wouldn't you think it would at least warrant an interview?
If I was Joe Sixpack with only transmission overhaul experience, I'd
understand, but I worked for some of Canadas leading hi-tech companies, and
feel I meet all the qualifications for these postings.
But somehow, I've been red-flagged, and the only thing I can think of is,
RIM discriminates against older workers.
Anyone else have similar experience with this?

[Joe Canuck]

Post by Old Dude
Someone tell me why RIM in Waterloo has had the same postings for the same
jobs since last summer?
We're talking posting the same jobs, like Technical Writing, since July
2004....these are posted on workopolis.com day after day after day.
Yet, even though I applied for these jobs over and over again, I get
rejected over and over again.
If they ask for experience in ABCDE, and I have it, and they want education
in KLMNO, and I have it, and they want knowledge in WXYZ, and I have it,
wouldn't you think it would at least warrant an interview?
If I was Joe Sixpack with only transmission overhaul experience, I'd
understand, but I worked for some of Canadas leading hi-tech companies, and
feel I meet all the qualifications for these postings.
But somehow, I've been red-flagged, and the only thing I can think of is,
RIM discriminates against older workers.
Anyone else have similar experience with this?

Yes, and I have also experienced language discrimination first hand.

I saw an ad where Bombardier were looking for someone in their IT
department with my qualifications... sent in a resume.

About a week later I get a phone call from their HR department. Person
asks me if I know where they are located. Yes, Montreal. Then asks me to
speak a few words in French, which I do. I could almost hear their
disapproval in the background after which they basically said thanks but
no thanks and hung up.

Talk about a two minute rollercoaster ride leaving me with a very bad
feeling about Bombardier. And, there was no mention in the English
advertisement that French was a requirement of the position.

One can attempt to perhaps hide their age by dropping off the dates on
education received and shorten the work history to perhaps the past 10
years, but still try to include all the relevant points that shows they
are qualified for the position.

As for the age thing... I witnessed first hand a young agency recruiter
giving a talk to mainly older adults that are retraining say blatantly
that an older worker won't fit well in an environment with younger
workers. I was very surprised she made the remark considering the
circumstances and even more surprised no one said a thing about it.

What to do eh? If a company doesn't want an older worker in a position
there is nothing you or I can do about it... despite laws against
discrimination.

[Lost]

Post by Joe Canuck

Post by Old Dude
Someone tell me why RIM in Waterloo has had the same postings for the same
jobs since last summer?
But somehow, I've been red-flagged, and the only thing I can think of is,
RIM discriminates against older workers.
Anyone else have similar experience with this?

Dude I have run into this problem with them as well. I gave up sending
in resumes to RIM over two years ago. I applied with them about three
years back and had exactly the same experience. The phone interview
part that covered technical skills went well, then one of the
three interviewers asked why my college diploma was ten years
before the last job that I had listed. Then I told them that
I had been in the industry since the early eighties. The interview
was ended by them two short questions later, and I never heard word
one from them again. Its clear to me what their hiring practice
is mostly age discrimination based.

Post by Joe Canuck
Yes, and I have also experienced language discrimination first hand.
I saw an ad where Bombardier were looking for someone in their IT
department with my qualifications... sent in a resume.

<snip>

Post by Joe Canuck
One can attempt to perhaps hide their age by dropping off the dates on
education received and shorten the work history to perhaps the past 10
years, but still try to include all the relevant points that shows they
are qualified for the position.

See above. I have started leaving the date off the resume too. But
most recruiters and interviewers still ask. They know what they
are looking for and what they are trying to eliminate. I have been
on the other side of the interview desk in the past ten years, and
witnessed corporate HR people practicing this kind of discrimination
for purposes that I never understood at the time. I just chalked it
up to them being arses, but looking back on it now I can see how they
were just adhering to some silent hiring philosophy set down by the
higher ups.

Sadly language is not just Quebec. Any company that does business
with the federal government or business in New Brunswick and some in
Nova Scotia are making french a forced requirement now. I have a
friend who works at one of these companies for ten years and she
says she only needed to speak french once. Its just that companies
are trying to pad their ranks with franco-capable people to make
good on future RFP and "equal opportunity" qualification.

A computer company I interviewed with four times in NB pulled the
same crap, even though I was perfect fit for the job. I was told I
was "overqualified" for the position each time. Clearly from
comments made in their interviews they only want what is
young "french" speaking people in their ranks. I know because I got
so tired of their BS that to clear my own mind I drove the ten hours
to their office in Moncton to confront their HR people and the
companies management to find out what was going on. What I saw
was a office full of people in their twenties, about half-dozen
older "partners", and lots of pretty young gurls that were eye
candy for the office. No one in the office was speaking french,
and their customer base is all American, so figure that one out.

Hence I would add on top of what you said the problem of
"image discrimination". Young kids who interview rarely hire older
people for reasons of fear and because many of them despise that
we do not have "the image" to socially blend with the other people
in the office. It sounds stupid, but it happens.

I am enough of a realistic person too know some of this goes on,
but in the past five years I have seen discrimination in hiring
literally explode. Old people are out. That's the way it is.

Post by Joe Canuck
As for the age thing... I witnessed first hand a young agency recruiter
giving a talk to mainly older adults that are retraining say blatantly
that an older worker won't fit well in an environment with younger
workers. I was very surprised she made the remark considering the
circumstances and even more surprised no one said a thing about it.
What to do eh? If a company doesn't want an older worker in a position
there is nothing you or I can do about it... despite laws against
discrimination.

The Board of Labour will not enforce discrimination laws any more.
So employers have a blank slate with which to carry on the practice.
I was told by someone at the BOL that they have too many other cases
to deal with that they consider higher priority, and the government
will not give them the resources to deal with the problems.

Welcome to Canada.

[Brainrot]

"

Post by Lost
Hence I would add on top of what you said the problem of
"image discrimination". Young kids who interview rarely hire older
people for reasons of fear and because many of them despise that
we do not have "the image" to socially blend with the other people
in the office. It sounds stupid, but it happens.

The same goes for older people interviewing younger people!

Post by Lost
I am enough of a realistic person too know some of this goes on,
but in the past five years I have seen discrimination in hiring
literally explode. Old people are out. That's the way it is.

Bullshit, Its harder to get a job today because older people are
discriminating against
hiring younger people. I guess it seems, its all in the age of the people
working at the company? If anyone has the right
to a entry job it is the younger workers under 40 who have not had a chance
to work in a carreer for 25 years. Over 40 should be project leaders or
managers!

[Upscale]

Post by Brainrot
to a entry job it is the younger workers under 40 who have not had a chance
to work in a carreer for 25 years. Over 40 should be project leaders or
managers!

That's a pile of crap. There's plenty of older people who work in the ranks
with the younger workers. Who the hell do you think helps and trains the
younger workers so they can do their jobs? Do you think some manager simply
tells a new younger "there's your desk, go to work"? There's always some
other experienced (read older) person to help them out.

Add to that the enormous downturn in IT a few years back and you have a much
larger workforce of older laid of workers who have to start over and have
just as much right (and need) as anyone else to a job. Even worse, the older
worker often has obligations and expenses (family or mortgage for example)
that the younger worker doesn't yet have.

~ Appropriate alias you have. Most appropriate.

[Brainrot]

Older workers are more wise then younger workers. They see the overall
Picture. That's why they should be
managers. Managers do train employees. Yet younger workers tend to spend
allot of their time training older workers with new
technologies! Why? Younger workers play closer to closer detail and do not
see outside of the box!

Post by Jeff

Post by Brainrot
to a entry job it is the younger workers under 40 who have not had a

chance

Post by Brainrot
to work in a carreer for 25 years. Over 40 should be project leaders or
managers!

That's a pile of crap. There's plenty of older people who work in the ranks
with the younger workers. Who the hell do you think helps and trains the
younger workers so they can do their jobs? Do you think some manager simply
tells a new younger "there's your desk, go to work"? There's always some
other experienced (read older) person to help them out.
Add to that the enormous downturn in IT a few years back and you have a much
larger workforce of older laid of workers who have to start over and have
just as much right (and need) as anyone else to a job. Even worse, the older
worker often has obligations and expenses (family or mortgage for example)
that the younger worker doesn't yet have.

I never said that did not deserve an equal opportunity! Yet, Even worse
then the older worker is that younger familys today have their kids to feed
and most have nothing in capital. Do younger workers do not deserve a 15
year plus carreer? I think so. !

Post by Jeff
~ Appropriate alias you have. Most appropriate.

[Upscale]

Post by Brainrot
Older workers are more wise then younger workers. They see the overall
Picture. That's why they should be managers.

Really? Well hell, I'm wise and older, make me a manager. I'm sure there's
many older workers that should be or want to be managers, but I think the
reality is a little different.

Post by Brainrot
Managers do train employees.

Managers do not train employees. Managers designate someone who is more
experienced to train an employee. Maybe we're differing on what constitutes
a manager. I view a manager as anyone that is a team leader or above. In the
industries where I've worked, that leaves a great many people who are not
managers.

Post by Brainrot
Yet younger workers tend to spend allot of their time training
older workers with new technologies!

I'm not sure who the older workers are that you've had contact with, but my
experience with older workers is that they are aware of new technologies
just as much as the younger workers, albeit it for different reasons. The
older workers I know keep up with new technologies to remain competitive and
hopefully to make their jobs a little easier. The younger workers are likely
to be more enthusiastic and constantly looking for new experiences, which
may mean seeking out new technologies.

Any way you want to slice it, an older worker has just as much right to work
as a younger worker. It's hoped that an older worker (read: one that has
worked at company for a long period) will have moved up the ranks over time,
but the reality is not so cut and dried. With outsourcing, downsizing and
dot.com busts, a large portion of the IT industry has been in the tanks for
several years. That's left many of those (should be managers) older people
out in the cold.

The industries that have taken off are the service industries and stuff like
the home and construction industries. If anything, the younger workers
should be looking at those areas since they have the strength and health to
handle the rigours of that type of work, stuff that older workers less
likely to be able to handle.

You can say over and over that older workers should be managers, but there's
a pyramid effect in operation where there's many workers with fewer people
(managers) above as the pyramid gets higher. With the fact that people are
living longer these days, it's only going to get worse.

[Brainrot]

Post by Upscale

Post by Brainrot
Older workers are more wise then younger workers. They see the overall
Picture. That's why they should be managers.

Really? Well hell, I'm wise and older, make me a manager. I'm sure there's
many older workers that should be or want to be managers, but I think the
reality is a little different.

I myself being middle age, is tired of someone else taking the credit for my
work instead of giving the credit
to the team. I prefer to be a worker, rather then a manager. I had a
manager personally train me on the architecture of
a project. In turn I trained the staff, on new technologies.

Post by Upscale

Post by Brainrot
Managers do train employees.

Managers do not train employees. Managers designate someone who is more
experienced to train an employee. Maybe we're differing on what constitutes
a manager. I view a manager as anyone that is a team leader or above. In the
industries where I've worked, that leaves a great many people who are not
managers.

Maybe, I should say supervisor. Since I'm refering to managers in the
governement.

Post by Upscale

Post by Brainrot
Yet younger workers tend to spend allot of their time training
older workers with new technologies!

I'm not sure who the older workers are that you've had contact with, but my
experience with older workers is that they are aware of new technologies
just as much as the younger workers, albeit it for different reasons. The
older workers I know keep up with new technologies to remain competitive and
hopefully to make their jobs a little easier. The younger workers are likely
to be more enthusiastic and constantly looking for new experiences, which
may mean seeking out new technologies.

I basically trained alot of older workers.

Post by Upscale
Any way you want to slice it, an older worker has just as much right to work
as a younger worker. It's hoped that an older worker (read: one that has
worked at company for a long period) will have moved up the ranks over time,
but the reality is not so cut and dried. With outsourcing, downsizing and
dot.com busts, a large portion of the IT industry has been in the tanks for
several years. That's left many of those (should be managers) older people
out in the cold.

This is why I spoke up, there was a generalization that RIM was discrimating
with
older workers only. That is crap! There is such a diveristy of people in
IT looking for work
out there and they really are all in the same vote. When it comes to a
company hiring, they do not ask your age! Yet
who ever interviews you may have something againist the persons age.

Post by Upscale
The industries that have taken off are the service industries and stuff like
the home and construction industries. If anything, the younger workers
should be looking at those areas since they have the strength and health to
handle the rigours of that type of work, stuff that older workers less
likely to be able to handle.

Well they are encouraging younger workers up to 28 to join the trades. Alot
of labour
unions will not take you on as an aprentice over 30 years old. They will
sure take your buy $ though.

There is not many programs out there for people over 28 years old sponsered
by the government in retraining. If you do find a program for
help with unemployment, they themselves are highly optimistic in insisting
you. The bottom line is are you willing to spend another $30,000 or more
un top of your last degree costs to gamble on a new career or retraining?

Post by Upscale
You can say over and over that older workers should be managers, but there's
a pyramid effect in operation where there's many workers with fewer people
(managers) above as the pyramid gets higher. With the fact that people are
living longer these days, it's only going to get worse.

I have nothing wrong with someone earning a living. Yet when they earned
enough to retire above comfort, I wish they work part-time and
pass on some knowledge to the younger workers and maybe a career. Most
retire, and the company spends X more dollars trying to replace
that worker.

[Lost]

Brainrot wrote:
<snip>

Post by Brainrot
I have nothing wrong with someone earning a living. Yet when they earned
enough to retire above comfort, I wish they work part-time and
pass on some knowledge to the younger workers and maybe a career. Most
retire, and the company spends X more dollars trying to replace
that worker.

We are all peons in the eyes of the corporate higher ups, so maybe
we should work together and deal with that before we turn on each
other.

I was merely pointing out that I see a lot of discrimination against
middle-aged workers, and my experiences with RIM were just more
proof that it is a general trend in the industry.

I won't even get into the fact that the IT industry is also being
overrun by workoholics and people who seem to spend more time
competing and backknifing then they do working together.

Wake up....the Roths and Enrons of the world are screwing all of us.
Age discrimination is just one symptom of the bigger disease.

[Grouchy3]

Post by Lost
Hence I would add on top of what you said the problem of
"image discrimination". Young kids who interview rarely hire older
people for reasons of fear and because many of them despise that
we do not have "the image" to socially blend with the other people
in the office. It sounds stupid, but it happens.

Yeah, you have to have that young engineer look to fit in....you know,
solid golf shirt with a different colour collar, dockers, and the
hair...the hair thats cut short, but with a launching pad right at the
tip...man, you stand outside the main entrance to RIM and think you
are seeing a bunch of Borg come out, all dressed the same with the
same haircuts.

I too attended one of their recent job fairs, and was not surprised to
see the "Eye Candy" recruitment Officers. young chicks with big tits,
tight t-shirts, french manicure fake nails, plucked/painted eyebrows,
and these fashion model rejects pass judgement on the technical
abilities of others.

Just fucking amazing!

[ken d.]

Post by Old Dude
If they ask for experience in ABCDE, and I have it, and they want education
in KLMNO, and I have it, and they want knowledge in WXYZ, and I have it,
wouldn't you think it would at least warrant an interview?
If I was Joe Sixpack with only transmission overhaul experience, I'd
understand, but I worked for some of Canadas leading hi-tech companies, and
feel I meet all the qualifications for these postings.
But somehow, I've been red-flagged, and the only thing I can think of is,
RIM discriminates against older workers.
Anyone else have similar experience with this?

the entire k-w software industry completely discriminates against age.
(if you are over 35 and not applying for a management position,
good freakin luck to ya -- you dont exist.)

that's why i decided to go into transmission overhaulin at the age of 46.
(okay, truck driving, not transmissions.)

-k

[sohail]

I have sent my resume to RIM more than 10 times for few identical
accounting postings where my resume was a close match but never heard
back from them. One of the KW area recruiter told me that RIM is
focusing only on local talent, not hiring anymore outside KW.

Besides looking for job within accounting and Finance field I have
been applying for some odd jobs. Once I received a call from Pizza
Pizza for driver job. They interviewed me but refused to offer me the
position because I am a bearded person and they do not hire anyone who
has beard or goti.

Is it fair/legal?

Would appreciate your comments.

Post by ken d.

Post by Old Dude
If they ask for experience in ABCDE, and I have it, and they want education
in KLMNO, and I have it, and they want knowledge in WXYZ, and I have it,
wouldn't you think it would at least warrant an interview?
If I was Joe Sixpack with only transmission overhaul experience, I'd
understand, but I worked for some of Canadas leading hi-tech companies, and
feel I meet all the qualifications for these postings.
But somehow, I've been red-flagged, and the only thing I can think of is,
RIM discriminates against older workers.
Anyone else have similar experience with this?

the entire k-w software industry completely discriminates against age.
(if you are over 35 and not applying for a management position,
good freakin luck to ya -- you dont exist.)
that's why i decided to go into transmission overhaulin at the age of 46.
(okay, truck driving, not transmissions.)
-k

[Donald Tees]

Post by sohail
I have sent my resume to RIM more than 10 times for few identical
accounting postings where my resume was a close match but never heard
back from them. One of the KW area recruiter told me that RIM is
focusing only on local talent, not hiring anymore outside KW.
Besides looking for job within accounting and Finance field I have
been applying for some odd jobs. Once I received a call from Pizza
Pizza for driver job. They interviewed me but refused to offer me the
position because I am a bearded person and they do not hire anyone who
has beard or goti.
Is it fair/legal?
Would appreciate your comments.

Well, as a long-haired, bearded old hippy, I can assure you it has being
going on for at least 40 years.

They do have the right (and I think correctly so) that precautions be
taken for both safety and sanitary reasons. For example, in the food
industry, I have always worn both a hair net and a beard net. Turbans
and hardhats would be problematic, I am sure.

Donald

[Brainrot]

RIM has age discrimination for young people 2. I think you must be dead for
them to hire you!

Post by Old Dude
Someone tell me why RIM in Waterloo has had the same postings for the same
jobs since last summer?
We're talking posting the same jobs, like Technical Writing, since July
2004....these are posted on workopolis.com day after day after day.
Yet, even though I applied for these jobs over and over again, I get
rejected over and over again.
If they ask for experience in ABCDE, and I have it, and they want education
in KLMNO, and I have it, and they want knowledge in WXYZ, and I have it,
wouldn't you think it would at least warrant an interview?
If I was Joe Sixpack with only transmission overhaul experience, I'd
understand, but I worked for some of Canadas leading hi-tech companies, and
feel I meet all the qualifications for these postings.
But somehow, I've been red-flagged, and the only thing I can think of is,
RIM discriminates against older workers.
Anyone else have similar experience with this?

[Jeff]

I applied at RIM as well. I'm only 31 and I went all the way down to
London for an interview. I was interviewed by three separate people and
the impression that I got from them was that I was going to get the job
and that they wanted me to start right away. Then, about a week later as
I'm getting ready to make my move to London, I get a letter from them
stating that I was not going to be considered for the technical support
position. When I tried pushing for an answer, I was informed that what I
was doing was a form of harassment.

That spoke in volumes right there about RIM. The fact that all what I
wanted was answer as to why I didn't get the position and the fact that
they viewed that as harassment showed me that as a company, they would
fire anyone for no apparent reason and then make something up. Now, I
know some may call this sour grapes, but when the head of HR is in the
final interview and they go over what your salary is, what hours your
shift will be, and how to get to and from RIM when you first move to
London, that says a lot about your chances of getting the job.

Anyways, I've moved on. I did manage to get my answer as to why I didn't
get the job for and it was because I didn't have my MS certification in
Exchange. If they would have told me that from the very beginning, I
would have been ok with that. However, the fact that it took nearly a
month and two phone calls a day to HR says a lot about the company. I'm
sure that they've probably got someone scanning the news groups anyways
and I'm sure that we'll all receive some kind of email from them
apologizing, but fact of the matter is that you should count yourself
lucky you aren't working there. Think of it this way. If those positions
have been opened for so long, then how many different people have been
through that place?

[R]

Not only that but Workopolis is associated with the Toronto Star and both of
these companies are well known for advertising bogus jobs. If one checks
Workopolis every day, one will see the same lousy companies with the same
jobs. Before Workopolis they advertised in the Star.
R

I applied at RIM as well. I'm only 31 and I went all the way down to London
for an interview. I was interviewed by three separate people and the
impression that I got from them was that I was going to get the job and
that they wanted me to start right away. Then, about a week later as I'm
getting ready to make my move to London, I get a letter from them stating
that I was not going to be considered for the technical support position.
When I tried pushing for an answer, I was informed that what I was doing
was a form of harassment.
That spoke in volumes right there about RIM. The fact that all what I
wanted was answer as to why I didn't get the position and the fact that
they viewed that as harassment showed me that as a company, they would
fire anyone for no apparent reason and then make something up. Now, I know
some may call this sour grapes, but when the head of HR is in the final
interview and they go over what your salary is, what hours your shift will
be, and how to get to and from RIM when you first move to London, that
says a lot about your chances of getting the job.
Anyways, I've moved on. I did manage to get my answer as to why I didn't
get the job for and it was because I didn't have my MS certification in
Exchange. If they would have told me that from the very beginning, I would
have been ok with that. However, the fact that it took nearly a month and
two phone calls a day to HR says a lot about the company. I'm sure that
they've probably got someone scanning the news groups anyways and I'm sure
that we'll all receive some kind of email from them apologizing, but fact
of the matter is that you should count yourself lucky you aren't working
there. Think of it this way. If those positions have been opened for so
long, then how many different people have been through that place?

[Donald Tees]

Post by R
Not only that but Workopolis is associated with the Toronto Star and both of
these companies are well known for advertising bogus jobs. If one checks
Workopolis every day, one will see the same lousy companies with the same
jobs. Before Workopolis they advertised in the Star.
R

They have been calling those companies pimps for 30 years for good
reason. A majority of the jobs advertized do not exist ... they are
simply trolls for resumes. Agency's live on their resume collection, and
salespeople are given a bonus for everyone they collect.

With regard to the age discrimination, I ran into it a few years back
when I was looking for the first time in 30 years. I received my CompSci
degree in 73. In fact, it became a blessing in disguise. I decided to
use the net instead, and tapped into the old boys network.

Now, I never drive. All my work is over a HS line, I never drive
anywhere for work, and I get paid in US dollars. Even though I have been
self employed and have had a home office for most of my career, it is a
wonderfull luxury. And nobody even knows my age, unless they read a resume.

Donald

[JustProgrammer]

Can you please tell more about "HS line"?
How do we get there?

Post by Donald Tees

Post by R
Not only that but Workopolis is associated with the Toronto Star and both of
these companies are well known for advertising bogus jobs. If one checks
Workopolis every day, one will see the same lousy companies with the same
jobs. Before Workopolis they advertised in the Star.
R

They have been calling those companies pimps for 30 years for good
reason. A majority of the jobs advertized do not exist ... they are
simply trolls for resumes. Agency's live on their resume collection, and
salespeople are given a bonus for everyone they collect.
With regard to the age discrimination, I ran into it a few years back
when I was looking for the first time in 30 years. I received my CompSci
degree in 73. In fact, it became a blessing in disguise. I decided to
use the net instead, and tapped into the old boys network.
Now, I never drive. All my work is over a HS line, I never drive
anywhere for work, and I get paid in US dollars. Even though I have been
self employed and have had a home office for most of my career, it is a
wonderfull luxury. And nobody even knows my age, unless they read a resume.
Donald

[unknown]

Post by JustProgrammer
Can you please tell more about "HS line"?
How do we get there?

high-speed line

Post by JustProgrammer

Post by Donald Tees

Post by R
Not only that but Workopolis is associated with the Toronto Star and

both of

Post by Donald Tees

Post by R
these companies are well known for advertising bogus jobs. If one checks
Workopolis every day, one will see the same lousy companies with the

same

Post by Donald Tees

Post by R
jobs. Before Workopolis they advertised in the Star.
R

They have been calling those companies pimps for 30 years for good
reason. A majority of the jobs advertized do not exist ... they are
simply trolls for resumes. Agency's live on their resume collection, and
salespeople are given a bonus for everyone they collect.
With regard to the age discrimination, I ran into it a few years back
when I was looking for the first time in 30 years. I received my CompSci
degree in 73. In fact, it became a blessing in disguise. I decided to
use the net instead, and tapped into the old boys network.
Now, I never drive. All my work is over a HS line, I never drive
anywhere for work, and I get paid in US dollars. Even though I have been
self employed and have had a home office for most of my career, it is a
wonderfull luxury. And nobody even knows my age, unless they read a

resume.

Post by Donald Tees
Donald

[Donald Tees]

Post by JustProgrammer
Can you please tell more about "HS line"?
How do we get there?

high speed.

Donald

[JustProgrammer]

Thanks. I think many of us have HS :-)
What about the company you are working with?
Do they still hire subcontractors? What skills?

Post by Donald Tees

Post by JustProgrammer
Can you please tell more about "HS line"?
How do we get there?

high speed.
Donald

[Donald Tees]

Post by JustProgrammer
Thanks. I think many of us have HS :-)
What about the company you are working with?
Do they still hire subcontractors? What skills?

I am working for a small var ... one of thousands. Sure small vars hire
contractors. Skill sets vary, but it boils down to being able to take
over a half million line program of some sort. At the moment I am
working in Modula II, but it was Cobol skills that got me the job.

Donald

[Cobol Dude]

Cobol skills got you the job? What job? I'm interested. My cobol skills
usually get me rejected from job opportunities here because I guess
employers view me as being outdated. An old god to whom you can't teach new
tricks.

Post by Donald Tees

Post by JustProgrammer
Thanks. I think many of us have HS :-)
What about the company you are working with?
Do they still hire subcontractors? What skills?

I am working for a small var ... one of thousands. Sure small vars hire
contractors. Skill sets vary, but it boils down to being able to take
over a half million line program of some sort. At the moment I am working
in Modula II, but it was Cobol skills that got me the job.
Donald

[Donald Tees]

Post by Cobol Dude
Cobol skills got you the job? What job? I'm interested. My cobol skills
usually get me rejected from job opportunities here because I guess
employers view me as being outdated. An old god to whom you can't teach new
tricks.

Post by Donald Tees

Post by JustProgrammer
Thanks. I think many of us have HS :-)
What about the company you are working with?
Do they still hire subcontractors? What skills?

I am working for a small var ... one of thousands. Sure small vars hire
contractors. Skill sets vary, but it boils down to being able to take
over a half million line program of some sort. At the moment I am working
in Modula II, but it was Cobol skills that got me the job.
Donald

Find a Var, and offer your services. Bargain.

Donald

[Notes/Domino Veteran]

My experiences are parallel to yours. I applied so many times that I had to
keep an entire binder for the automated rejections. I figured that if I
couldn't get past HR, I would go to the job fair that RIM had in London.
Kind of silly, but I live in Waterloo very close to RIM. In London I passed
the first screening and then had a longer interview (15 minutes). They
booked me for an interview in Waterloo.

I went to the "gauntlet" style interview, first group was three people with
scripted questions. Then the next group of three with more scripted
questions. The second group were the technical questioners, several times
they responded "perfect" to my answers. Finally, the "Supervisor" who spent
most of the interview trying to convince me to come to RIM.

In my 55 years, I have never had a more positive interview. A couple of
days later I get the same rejection letter that you get for an email
application. My qualifications are in the Support, so I figured that either
HR or the Support Supervisor was discriminating on the basis of age. They
have posted for BlackBerry Technical Support Supervisor. So once he is
gone, then maybe I'll have a chance.

The HR department seems to being holding RIM back, when I said that I
couldn't get through the on-line application process and had to come to a
job fair, the interviewers all rolled their eyes. The Support people know
that HR is screwing up the process, but they can't do anything about it.

Post by Old Dude
Someone tell me why RIM in Waterloo has had the same postings for the same
jobs since last summer?
We're talking posting the same jobs, like Technical Writing, since July
2004....these are posted on workopolis.com day after day after day.
Yet, even though I applied for these jobs over and over again, I get
rejected over and over again.
If they ask for experience in ABCDE, and I have it, and they want education
in KLMNO, and I have it, and they want knowledge in WXYZ, and I have it,
wouldn't you think it would at least warrant an interview?
If I was Joe Sixpack with only transmission overhaul experience, I'd
understand, but I worked for some of Canadas leading hi-tech companies, and
feel I meet all the qualifications for these postings.
But somehow, I've been red-flagged, and the only thing I can think of is,
RIM discriminates against older workers.
Anyone else have similar experience with this?

[Blackfly]

I had an interview at RIM a while back, and basically had the job. However,
issue that stopped it was primarily that I get more at my current employer
than I'd ever get at RIM.

Support reps were 35K roughly per year, the shifts were 8 hours, going
around the clock in 1 hour increments (one week on 7-3, next 8.4, next 9-5,
next 10-6, etc) til you cycle the clock. You need to remain in support for
two years or more, before you apply anywhere internally there. The higher
end system folks and network engineers still got less money than I make now.

Basically, don't lose sleep for not getting a job at RIM. Apply to Palm. ;)

Also, for those in the KW area, best to apply to places like Opentext
(decent cake of about 50K+ for support specialists), Dalsa, Mcafee
(***@mcafee.com - they also have C++ and other developer jobs there),
RDM, NCR, etc.

BF

Post by Notes/Domino Veteran
My experiences are parallel to yours. I applied so many times that I had to
keep an entire binder for the automated rejections. I figured that if I
couldn't get past HR, I would go to the job fair that RIM had in London.
Kind of silly, but I live in Waterloo very close to RIM. In London I passed
the first screening and then had a longer interview (15 minutes). They
booked me for an interview in Waterloo.
I went to the "gauntlet" style interview, first group was three people with
scripted questions. Then the next group of three with more scripted
questions. The second group were the technical questioners, several times
they responded "perfect" to my answers. Finally, the "Supervisor" who spent
most of the interview trying to convince me to come to RIM.
In my 55 years, I have never had a more positive interview. A couple of
days later I get the same rejection letter that you get for an email
application. My qualifications are in the Support, so I figured that either
HR or the Support Supervisor was discriminating on the basis of age. They
have posted for BlackBerry Technical Support Supervisor. So once he is
gone, then maybe I'll have a chance.
The HR department seems to being holding RIM back, when I said that I
couldn't get through the on-line application process and had to come to a
job fair, the interviewers all rolled their eyes. The Support people know
that HR is screwing up the process, but they can't do anything about it.

Post by Old Dude
Someone tell me why RIM in Waterloo has had the same postings for the same
jobs since last summer?
We're talking posting the same jobs, like Technical Writing, since July
2004....these are posted on workopolis.com day after day after day.
Yet, even though I applied for these jobs over and over again, I get
rejected over and over again.
If they ask for experience in ABCDE, and I have it, and they want education
in KLMNO, and I have it, and they want knowledge in WXYZ, and I have it,
wouldn't you think it would at least warrant an interview?
If I was Joe Sixpack with only transmission overhaul experience, I'd
understand, but I worked for some of Canadas leading hi-tech companies, and
feel I meet all the qualifications for these postings.
But somehow, I've been red-flagged, and the only thing I can think of is,
RIM discriminates against older workers.
Anyone else have similar experience with this?

[Donald Tees]

Post by Blackfly
I had an interview at RIM a while back, and basically had the job. However,
issue that stopped it was primarily that I get more at my current employer
than I'd ever get at RIM.
Support reps were 35K roughly per year, the shifts were 8 hours, going
around the clock in 1 hour increments (one week on 7-3, next 8.4, next 9-5,
next 10-6, etc) til you cycle the clock. You need to remain in support for
two years or more, before you apply anywhere internally there. The higher
end system folks and network engineers still got less money than I make now.
Basically, don't lose sleep for not getting a job at RIM. Apply to Palm. ;)

Maybe that is why they will not hire older workers ... they'd actually
have to pay them more than janitorial rates ...

Donald